Project Jukebox

Digital Branch of the University of Alaska Fairbanks Oral History Program

Project Jukebox Survey

Help us redesign the Project Jukebox website by taking a very short survey!

Vera Metcalf
Vera Metcalf

Vera Kingeekuk Metcalf was interviewed on February 6, 2020 by Leslie McCartney and Katie Cullen at the Bering Land Bridge National Preserve offices in Nome, Alaska. In this interview, Vera talks about observations of environmental change in the Bering Strait region during her lifetime, including with walrus, ocean temperatures, algal blooms, sea ice, food resources, seasonal timing, snowfall, coastal erosion, whales, and fishing. She also talks about her work with the Eskimo Walrus Commission, regulations and co-management, cultural documentation, and her current efforts to host a summit for young hunters to facilitate the transfer of knowledge between generations.

After clicking play, click on a section to navigate the audio or video clip.

Sections

Personal background and growing up in Savoonga, Alaska

Role of the church, and getting married

Getting an education, and doing cultural documentation projects

Being a bilingual teacher, moving to Nome, doing translation work, and working for Kawerak, Inc.

Working for the Eskimo Walrus Commission

Observations of change in walrus populations and accessibility

Observations of change in walrus haul outs

Issues of concern for the Eskimo Walrus Commission, and research being conducted

Observations of change in walrus distribution

Getting young hunters involved in the Eskimo Walrus Commission and better understanding regulations

Transmission of traditional knowledge about walrus and proper harvest protocols

Inuit Circumpolar Council

Observations of change in the timing of freeze-up, the amount of snow, the wind, beach sand, and driftwood

Marine mammal co-management system

Whaling in Savoonga and Gambell, sharing, and subsistence and commercial halibut fishing

Effects of commercial fishing and net entanglement, and habitat protection

Click play, then use Sections or Transcript to navigate the interview.

After clicking play, click a section of the transcript to navigate the audio or video clip.

Transcript

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Today is February 6, 2020. We are at the National Park Service offices here in Nome. I’m Leslie McCartney. We have the pleasure of being with Vera Metcalf this afternoon and with Katie Cullen. And I’ll let you both introduce yourselves.

KATIE CULLEN: Hi, I’m Katie Cullen. I’m the interpretation and education program manager at Bering Land Bridge National Preserve in Nome, Alaska. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And Vera.

VERA METCALF: Well, my name is Vera Kingeekuk Metcalf. Born and raised in Savoonga. And I’m the director for the Eskimo Walrus Commission at Kawerak here in Nome. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

So can we just talk a little bit about your parents and growing up in Savoonga? VERA METCALF: Right. My parents were Theodore and May Kingeekuk, um, who raised ten of us. I have five brothers and five sisters. Uh, we come from a large extended family.

My father was well known for his, uh, taking long walks and hiking and jogging. And my mother was amazing resource for -- wonderful woman to raise ten of us plus two of -- cousins who lost their parents at an early age.

So I grew up with a big, big family. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Kingeekuks and Gologregens are extended from two brothers, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Ok.

Where are you in the ten? VERA METCALF: I was the youngest, but in our society, we -- my brother had the last baby, and the mom, my sister-in-law, got sick. So naturally we wanted to take care of the baby, so we didn’t want to give her back. We adopted her, too. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh.

VERA METCALF: So, technically, I’m the youngest, but -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: She’s the youngest? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Mary was the youngest.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: What was it like growing up in Savoonga? VERA METCALF: Growing up in Savoonga -- you know, we’re organized into clan systems out on St. Lawrence Island. My family comes from the Qiwaaghmi clan which is Qiwaaq is a point in Chukotka (Cape Chukotsky), so we have lots of kinship in Chukotka in Russia. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And growing up in Savoonga, you have to go to school in the falltime, but in the summer, we spent a lot of my time at our camp, our summer camp, gathering greens, roots, birds, fishing, wood, cutting wood, to -- you know, subsistence lifestyle.

Um, but also we had challenges of having to, you know, go out to look for food and come home and there’s, you know, don’t have any so you have to resort to other resources that were available for us.

So was challenges, but for me, growing up in a small community like Savoonga was wonderful experience for me.

My parents grounded us very well, foundationally, into knowing who we were and where we came from. Identity on St. Lawrence Island is very strong.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. And we were just talking. You were saying that the -- the pastor who married you is 103 now and that she had come to Savoonga when she was twenty. So the church played a large role in your life?

VERA METCALF: Yes. Savoonga and Gambell, it’s that time when Sheldon Jackson -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: I don’t know if you remember. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes, I do. VERA METCALF: Presbyterian came and um, you know, supposedly we’re divided into -- send the missionaries to Savoonga. Presbyterians are at Barrow. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And um, you know, Alice Green came when she was twenty-four, twenty-five years old. And first woman, I believe, within that time, to minister.

And I know that she probably baptized many of our, you know, family members and so many, so many of us, and married, and, of course, you know, um, had -- we had to have memorial services for folks that passed on.

But she -- she was a strong supporter of our marriage, because my father did not want me to marry anyone outside the community, so he was resistant. And Alice made sure that we did everything cultural -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: -- correct and the protocols we had to honor that system where my father was, you know, she called him the Old Believer.

And we wanted to respect his concern for me being the youngest to marry someone not from -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: The community. VERA METCALF: -- the island.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And what year was that then, Vera? VERA METCALF: We met ’76, and we got married in ’79. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

Now did you go to school the whole time on the island? VERA METCALF: Um, yep. I went to school, um -- Let’s see, grade school up to twelfth grade. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: And then I went -- no. Graduated eighth, and then I spent at boarding school here in Nome-Beltz (Nome-Beltz High School in Nome). LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh, so the high school was in Nome, then, was it? VERA METCALF: Yeah. So 9 to 12 I was here. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

VERA METCALF: And then college, I was -- I’m a graduate of University of Alaska Fairbanks. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Hm, very good. So what did you graduate with from there? VERA METCALF: Rural -- rural studies. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yep. VERA METCALF: Community research and cultural documentation was my -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Ah. VERA METCALF: -- interest. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Wonderful.

And did you go back to do any cultural documentation? VERA METCALF: I have, yeah. I’ve -- I’ve done some work through University of Alaska Fairbanks Museum with repatriation work. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. Yeah. VERA METCALF: Prior to where I’m at now.

And um, I recall knowledge repatriation was bringing back documents to St. Lawrence Island of people that were taken by -- in 1920’s, '30’s. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: And trying to identify. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: Working with the elders of who these people were. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Now, that must be really exciting. VERA METCALF: Way beyond my time, so.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, exciting work? VERA METCALF: It was exciting work, but also interesting, because I learned so much about my history. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: My background. Who I was. Based on that repatriation work.

And working with the elders really, um, you know, increased and strengthened of my identity as being someone from St. Lawrence Island, Yupik. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So and then, plus it gives the museum far more knowledge about what arti -- you know, what documents or artifacts they actually have, more cultural context for those things.

VERA METCALF: Yeah. They were historical documents, and I think it was a pride -- I know it is a pride for people from the island ’cause they can say that wa -- "so-and-so is my relative in this book." LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: And these people are long gone, but we work with the elders that we had back in the -- you know, were maybe in their 50’s, 60’s, but it was hard for them to remember who these people were back then, so.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Wonderful. VERA METCALF: Um, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes. VERA METCALF: Very rewarding. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Very rewarding. VERA METCALF: Work for me.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. So then how did you and your -- your husband came to Nome to live? VERA METCALF: Right. He, um -- living in a small community has limited, uh, opportunities for finding a good -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: -- paying job.

So I -- I worked as a teacher’s -- I was a bilingual teacher in Savoonga. But we moved here because he found a job that he could, you know, work at and help get an income. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

VERA METCALF: It was kind of hard to leave home, because my father was still resisting us moving. Being the youngest, I was there to help take care of him. But we moved, and he (her husband) worked at an airline and hospital, and --

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. And has your dad since passed away? VERA METCALF: Oh, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: He passed away years ago. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: But he was in his 90’s.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Um, that must have been really rewarding, too, though, teaching your language? VERA METCALF: Yeah. Yep. I -- I still speak, read, and write it fluently, so I do -- which is a great asset to have because I can translate. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Not long, technical documents, but -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: But some?

So do you find that there is a lot of translation work for you? VERA METCALF: Um, I do some translating work for the court system sometimes. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Mm. VERA METCALF: For clients who need some, um, help in understanding the legal terms of -- which is a challenge, also, because, you know, you’re trying to find the Yupik word for “beyond a reasonable doubt” or what does that mean. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Yeah.

VERA METCALF: So I -- I -- I like that, but I also -- trying to find alternative meaning in Yupik is -- you have to work at it. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: And make sure that your client understood the situation. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: What the concept of the -- VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And the context of the word actually means? VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Oh, very interesting.

So you work at Kawerak right now, too? VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And how long have you been there, Vera? VERA METCALF: I started -- well, actually I started at the Eskimo Heritage Program, doing, you know, learning more about my background because there’s a lot of, um, resources over there.

Interviews from our people from the island. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Inupiaqs that were -- are housed there. So that was very -- again, a rewarding experience just listening to people that have passed on about -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: -- what their thoughts and wishes and dreams were for preserving -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: -- Yupik language.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. And where are those recordings housed now? VERA METCALF: At the Eskimo Heritage Program. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Are they? VERA METCALF: Here at Kawerak. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Kawerak. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Interesting. Um, have they all been digitized? VERA METCALF: I think that’s what they’re working on. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh, ok. VERA METCALF: We started that. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: We can talk about that later, yeah.

VERA METCALF: But I moved to the Eskimo Walrus Commission in 2002, and it’s -- we have a co-management agreement with a federal agency, Fish & Wildlife Service, to co-manage a shared resource, Pacific walrus population, with US and Russia.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh, interesting. So how does that all work, then? That must be very complicated.

VERA METCALF: Um, it’s -- we don’t have a bilateral agreement with Russia, but um -- my work is to make sure that the resource is available f -- as part of our food security. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And it’s harvested sustainably, and it will be available for -- Or, you know, that they’re healthy population.

Our federal partners are more into numbers, counting, and that’s fine. But we’re more concerned about the health of the population, because it’s part of our food.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. And so, I would imagine then, you get a lot of community input?

VERA METCALF: Right. We have nineteen coastal communities that are part of the Eskimo Walrus Commission. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And we do, um, you know, we do communicate with other marine mammal commissions in Alaska. Um, whaling. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: I mean, the same people that are walrus hunters can also be whaling captains, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right, yeah. VERA METCALF: It’s, you know, you don't -- you can’t pick and choose. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. So have you, um, encountered changes in -- in the walrus -- VERA METCALF: I think -- I think right now, the population is very healthy. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: As it’s a good number.

We like the number that Fish & Wildlife Service determined at, you know, a certain, I can’t remember, 213,000 animals, give and take between 50,000 to 500,000 of a number. So it’s an estimate.

But um, my concern is, um, because of changes in the environment, it’s -- we hear of our hunters going further. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: To find good ice to harvest.

Because harvesting a huge animal like walrus on ice is safer than having to butcher it in water. So ice is further.

Accessibility can be a challenge, because, like, in -- out in Savoonga, the walrus might be available, but it’s bad ice. You can’t get to it.

So accessibility can be one of the issues that we deal with and availability. We know that the population is healthy, but it’s access.

You have to get it at the right time. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Right weather conditions. Um, you don’t -- it’s not an 8-to-5 job, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

VERA METCALF: Yeah. And we’re hearing more and more of our hunters traveling further to find game, and that’s a safety concern to us.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So game meaning walrus and other game? VERA METCALF: Um, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah? VERA METCALF: Well, yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And traveling further as in, traveling further along the coast or inland? VERA METCALF: Further out. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Further out? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: To try and find it? VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: But, you know, if a seal, bearded seal, is available, they’ll resort to that. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: Maybe sometimes they’ll -- walrus will be closer. It’s easier when it’s closer, because gasoline is very expensive. KATIE CULLEN: Um, yeah. VERA METCALF: And getting your gear mobilized can be very expensive for a small community.

Many of the hunters carve. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: And make income out of those types of resources, so it is an -- very expensive. But that doesn’t stop them. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: From going out.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: What about the stories we hear on the radio sometimes about, you know, huge landings of walrus coming into certain beaches? VERA METCALF: Haul-outs? LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Haul-outs, yeah.

VERA METCALF: That is occurring more. In, for example, at Point Lay, there’s been a large number of walrus hauling-outs.

So we work with the community and use Fish & Wildlife Service to make sure that commercial pilots and vessels are aware of the haul-outs when they’re there to avoid -- have a certain altitude when they’re flying over or divert or vessels stay off the shore. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Fifty miles out.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So as not to bother them as much? VERA METCALF: If they -- it might cause stampede. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Stampede, right. VERA METCALF: And calves can get trampled.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. And then also, too, in the last few years on the radio, they’ve been talking about because of the lack of ice, the walrus are having to go further out for their food, too.

VERA METCALF: Um-hm. Well, walrus are smart. I mean, they can haul out on land and haul out on ice, and we’ve been told that they can also give birth in the water. KATIE CULLEN: Oh, wow.

VERA METCALF: And that’s -- they’re adapting to the changes. KATIE CULLEN: Wow. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Wow, that’s interesting.

VERA METCALF: And -- and the way I know is, one of our elders in Savoonga said, "We know that because when walruses have -- give birth on ice, their umbilical cords are shorter. But when you see long ones, we know that they have given birth in the water." LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Interesting.

VERA METCALF: And they’re smart. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Smart animals. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Adapting well to -- VERA METCALF: Adapting. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: -- to things? Yeah. Interesting.

What are some of the current issues then for the Walrus Commission?

VERA METCALF: Well, for us we do have researchers interested in collecting samples to assess the health of the population. What are they feeding? Is their food resource diminishing because of, um, ice supposedly helps, you know, clams -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: -- are available.

Um, you know, we’re worried about ocean acidification, of course, and um, harmful algal blooms. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes.

VERA METCALF: All these issues that will affect -- you know, because walruses are benthic feeders. Whatever they feed on the bottom will eventually affect the food resource for us. But clams are also -- we -- it’s part of our food resource. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: So any changes in the environment that -- we want to make sure that the health -- the -- the environment is healthy because that’s a sign that our communities are going to be healthy, too. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

And you were at the same talk that -- we were at the same talk together last night about -- VERA METCALF: Right. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: -- where they were talking about the clams and different toxicities in the clams.

And have -- had you -- you must have been aware of all that research going on? VERA METCALF: Yep. We know of those researchers. We’ve worked with them before.

So it’s -- it’s good information for us because I’m not a scientist or a biologist. I’m just making sure that communities have access to these resources and it’s harvested in a non-wasteful manner. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: That it’s available.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, and that they’re -- the food that is being harvested isn’t full of toxic materials? VERA METCALF: Right. Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Which is really important as they were talking about last night at the talk. VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Exactly. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, interesting.

VERA METCALF: So we like researchers, and we try to work with our communities to collect biological samples as long as they’re compensated for the work that they’re providing to the science. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: And everything. It’s just not free anymore. It’s -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: No. That’s right.

VERA METCALF: And we fought over the years to make -- to have people paid for providing samples that are, um, critical for understanding science. But we also encourage our, you know, researchers to work with our hunters ’cause they have a unique understanding of the environment that is not often taken into consideration.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. Yeah. You said there was nineteen different communities, Vera. VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Can you name some of those communities? VERA METCALF: All the way from Utqiaġvik, Barrow. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Uh-huh. VERA METCALF: Down to Bristol Bay, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: All the way down there. That’s a huge piece of -- VERA METCALF: Yeah.

Bristol Bay area has, um, they have a walrus haul-out, Round Island, which is managed by the State of Alaska, so we work with quite a few of their hunters, insure that they -- it’s a different system down there, but.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. Yeah. So any differences are you seeing in walrus between the north part of the Bering Sea and the south part of the Bering Sea? VERA METCALF: I think that’s a good question for our hunters. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: ’Cause they always seem to know.

Are they more bulls down there or females? LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Or size distribution or -- ? Yeah. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

Yeah, distribution have changed. Are they changing? LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, interesting.

And so, you meet as a commission how many times a year? VERA METCALF: Uh, we used to meet twice a year, but because of federal budget cuts, we’ve -- we only have one annual meeting, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: We’re working on getting other funding resources to increase our meetings, but, you know, foundations, any kind of funding, have their own terms and regulations we can’t -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: But yeah. Funding’s a big issue.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: It’s always -- big issue, right. And what are you hoping to do in future with the commission?

VERA METCALF: Well, I am trying to get more and more of our young people involved in understanding the rules and regulations of what it takes to manage a resource like walrus.

So I’m -- I have some funding to hold a young hunter summit here in Nome for our region. And then, the rest of the communities will be, um -- hoping to have hunters that are between 18-29 involved in management discussions.

Um, what does it take -- What does the Marine Mammal Protection Act, what is it? How does that affect you as a young hunter? What is Endangered Species Act?

All these rules and regulations that I have to deal with everyday to understand. These young men need to start learning.

And not only that, but the international, um, laws that could help us and advocate for our -- the work that we do. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: So I’m going to be holding a young hunters summit here in Nome.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: What are some of the common misconceptions, then, with hunters to what you say the regulations are? Is there any misconceptions, or -- ?

VERA METCALF: No, we -- we're always, um -- message is to, you know, hunt responsibly. We do have walrus harvest guidelines promoting non-wasteful take.

Um, any -- any violations against MMPA (Marine Mammal Protection Act) is something that we, um, promote and advocate for to, you know, hunt responsibly.

And, you know, media can play a big part in sending the wrong message, and next thing you know, you have environmental groups -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: -- you know, going after you, so. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: Just having to be careful of -- Uh, sending out the right message is -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: -- important.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Do you work any part with Russian counterparts? VERA METCALF: We do have Russian colleagues that we work with.

In fact, I’m just trying to wrap up a National Park Service project to collect indigenous knowledge from hunters over there on their observations and knowledge of walrus and the challenges that they face.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. Are they similar challenges to -- VERA METCALF: Pretty similar, but, you know, their system is much more different than what we have here. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. Right. VERA METCALF: So we try to support them any way we can.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And the traditional knowledge, did you find it similar? VERA METCALF: Similar, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Interesting.

VERA METCALF: Well, St. Lawrence Island Yupik, they had spoken over there, so we have a lot in common. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Family kinships. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: And friends and relatives.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Very good. So it’s interesting that you said that you’re giving workshops, and that’s more about the rules and regulations, I suppose. Correct?

VERA METCALF: Well, we’ll be bringing in someone like Gay Sheffield to share -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: -- her work and um, we’ll have someone that is well knowledgeable about international laws and like UNDRIP (United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples) or United Nations -- (Coughing in the background) KATIE CULLEN: Excuse me. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: -- laws that affect all kinds of hunting. Or what -- just so the young men can begin to know and maybe become the next commissioner. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: Or have their own young hunters --

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And is the tradit -- I take it, though, that the traditional knowledge between generations is still being transmitted to the younger?

VERA METCALF: That’s the -- that’s the other, um, thing that I’m -- (Coughing) KATIE CULLEN: Sorry. VERA METCALF: -- starting to see is changing. And, you know, we’re gonna have some of our -- five or six of our elder commissioners involved. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: So they can share their knowledge of what it takes to be a hunter, yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So you said you’re seeing a change there. What is the change?

VERA METCALF: Just, uh, maybe -- maybe terms in Yupik.

We have a lot of -- a walrus is just not a walrus to someone living in -- there’s bull walrus, female walrus, female in water, calf on mom’s back. I mean, there’s -- that’s -- those things that I think the young people need to know more.

And what are the rules and the right protocols to harvest animals. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes. VERA METCALF: I mean, there’s spirituality involved and I think that needs to be emphasized. That you just don’t harvest an animal just to harvest it, but --

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Everything that goes around with it? VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um, and, you know -- so that’s not being, maybe, transmitted as much as it was before?

VERA METCALF: Well, I think it is, but it’s going to be interesting what kinds of information.

It’s going to be -- you know, not just me talking, but I want to hear what they’re -- what they want to see in the future, you know. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: What does it -- what are your research interests? What do you want to do?

Are you interested in becoming a biologist or what are your dreams and aspirations of being a young hunter? LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: What can you share with others that may benefit from --

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes, go ahead. Have a drink. Are you ok, Katie? KATIE CULLEN: Yeah. My apologies. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: No problem.

So when are you hoping to have those workshops, then, Vera?

VERA METCALF: Well, we just sent off the application. We’re leaving it out for the tribal organizations to help complete the forms. And my first one, hopefully, within this region will be early spring. I’m looking for facilitators to do the work.

And the other one will be with the remaining communities. And then, the final one will be to bring everybody in. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: To what do we do next? LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Next steps forward. Yeah, definitely.

VERA METCALF: Um-hm, yeah. I already have some interest from, um, Greenland, but I said I just want to start small and see where this leads. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, start with your own region first. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: That’s interesting that Greenland’s also interested. VERA METCALF: Well, I serve on the Inuit Circumpolar Council - Alaska. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh, do you? VERA METCALF: I’m on the executive committee, so we do a lot of dialog with Greenland, Canada, and Chukotka.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So what issues are right now with the Circumpolar -- or sorry, with the Inuit Circumpolar? VERA METCALF: It’s -- we have an office in Alaska, and we’re getting ready for our next general assembly, which will be in Ilulissat, Greenland, in 2022. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: So we’re getting ready to, uh -- we have a declaration that we’re trying to follow. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: Some initiatives and food security for sovereignty is that we’re -- I’m focusing on. And there’s, of course, health and education. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. VERA METCALF: Language, culture.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: I think all of those issues are quite broad in the whole circumpolar -- VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: -- area. VERA METCALF: Oh, yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And they’ve always been dealt with by that commission. For years. VERA METCALF: Um-hm. Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Council. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes, council.

How long have you been on that council, then? VERA METCALF: I got on in 2010. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Really? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. And it meets every four years? VERA METCALF: Every four years. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: But we have -- our chair is from Alaska. And she’ll be involved in our summit, because she’s very knowledgeable about international laws and regulations. She’s a lawyer, too, so that helps.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes, very much so. Yeah. Well, that will be wonderful, to be able to go to Greenland and meet all those people. VERA METCALF: Well, we’ve been -- I’ve been to Greenland a number of times. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Have you?

VERA METCALF: But they want to see if they can send in some of their young people. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Hm. VERA METCALF: To our summit. But I have to figure out -- maybe to the final one?

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. Yeah. So you were saying, you’ve lived in Nome since the 1980’s? VERA METCALF: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: You must have seen some changes in the environment and things here, just in that period of time, or have you?

VERA METCALF: Yeah, I think so. Later ice forming. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: We live in Icy View, so there’s less, I mean -- we ski, and there’s hardly any snow at this time of the year. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Hard pack right now. Lotta shoveling. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes.

VERA METCALF: Wind -- windy. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: More so than it used to be? VERA METCALF: Yeah. More so it seems to be.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And different directions, too? VERA METCALF: Yeah. Different directions. Oh, my God, it just changes. You know, it’s from the north next, and -- ’cause I love to walk, and I’d rather walk when the wind’s behind my back, but it’s just shifting. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: All -- ? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: I’m not too familiar with Nome, but we have a camp down Cape Nome. KATIE CULLEN: Oh. VERA METCALF: Which the erosion has been -- it’s not, you know, creating hazard to our campsite, but the beach.

Now I think the sand’s coming back, which will elevate the bank. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Mm. So was the sand washed out, then, at one time? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh my.

VERA METCALF: And I don’t see as much driftwood as I used to. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. KATIE CULLEN: Hm. VERA METCALF: I don't know. ’Cause we use driftwood for -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: For fire? VERA METCALF: Fire.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, interesting. How long have you had your camp there then? VERA METCALF: Um, we rent from, you know -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Our -- the village corporation, ’cause we’re not a member of the regional corporation, but I can’t remember when it was built. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Hm.

VERA METCALF: But it’s a getaway from the busy Nome life. There’s no electricity, just the beach and the -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: -- quiet and the campfire.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And you go there in the summertimes mostly? VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Do you fish there? VERA METCALF: We used -- it was meant to be a fish camp, but that’s because fish closures, we don’t fish anymore. But we still have fish racks.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Ok. Interesting. So the sand all washed out, and now it seems to be coming back? VERA METCALF: I think it’s coming back, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Interesting. VERA METCALF: We haven’t been there, I think the roads are closed right now. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: But um, in summers that’s where we go.

In falltime, it’s good for picking berries. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. Very good. Yeah.

VERA METCALF: As long as the bears are not around. You have to be on the lookout for bears. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

KATIE CULLEN: Do they come close to your camp? VERA METCALF: They come along the beach. KATIE CULLEN: Oh, yeah.

VERA METCALF: We’ve had muskox, too. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Have you? VERA METCALF: Yeah. 'Cause I think they like the salty -- salty grass or something. KATIE CULLEN: Hm.

VERA METCALF: But yeah. But it’s beautiful. I mean, it’s a nice little place for us to go to. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Get away from everything? VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. Huh. Um, Katie? Any questions for Vera?

KATIE CULLEN: I was wondering a little bit about the co-management system. And has that been in place -- I guess I’m not too familiar with, kind of, the history of, um, how it was set in place. And how long has it been, um, been in that -- VERA METCALF: Yeah. KATIE CULLEN: -- set-up, I guess.

VERA METCALF: Well, the walrus commission was formed in 1978. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And I believe the Marine Mammal Protection Act was passed in 1994. And I -- I may miss some of my dates. But in it, they also created what they call the Section 119, which allowed funding to be available to organizations like Eskimo Walrus Commission.

And it’s -- the species are split between National Marine Fishery Services and US Fish & Wildlife Services manages polar bears, walruses, and sea otters. And NMFS, National Marine Fisheries, manages bowheads, ice seals, and belugas, I believe. KATIE CULLEN: Mm. VERA METCALF: So split between two federal agencies. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: And I think the funding came in when Senator Stevens was around. He really pushed to have adequate funding for co-management activities.

But since he passed away, it’s been kinda -- I want to just add funding that people always complained about. I don’t know. But he fought to have funding available for marine mammal commissions.

My -- the two -- my mentors were from Savoonga that ran the Eskimo Walrus Commission. It was Matthew Iya and Caleb Pungowiyi. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Oh, Caleb. VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

VERA METCALF: And they were, you know, they fought -- at the office maintained. And they did a lot of advocacy, and I always appreciate their leadership qualities to have the walrus commission. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: As it is, you know, it still exists. So.

KATIE CULLEN: And is the -- is the whaling commission also a similar -- like the same structure as the co-manage -- like, it’s co-management, as well?

VERA METCALF: Yes. They have their own commission members. KATIE CULLEN: Ok. Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Uh, I think -- I believe there’s ten from our region. And their office is in Barrow. KATIE CULLEN: Mm.

VERA METCALF: And they have a chair. In fact, they’re meeting this week. But their funding comes from National Marine Fisheries. KATIE CULLEN: Oh, ok.

VERA METCALF: And they have a lawyer, and we don’t. But that’s, you know -- KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: I think North Slope is different because of the oil. KATIE CULLEN: Mm, um-hm. VERA METCALF: Yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Money.

KATIE CULLEN: That’s really interesting, yeah. I’m curious to learn more about it, about co-management in general. I -- I -- I don't -- I haven’t had a chance to learn much about it yet, so.

VERA METCALF: Well, yeah. We work with our co-management partner, Fish & Wildlife Service, who in the past have -- used to be challenging ’cause of different leadership. But I think we’re coming to an agreement where we have similar research needs, and we’re starting to talk more. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: And that has improved over time.

And um, I -- you know, again, I always appreciate people that have worked before. Matthew, Caleb, and Charlie Johnson. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: And others who fought to -- their -- their battles. Yeah. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: Yeah, it’s different. Different system, same people. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Same hunters that just change hats when they want to. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Yeah.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Hm. I was talking with Gay (Sheffield) this morning, and she was saying about, um, just to go back to -- that Savoonga last year didn’t even get a whale. VERA METCALF: Right. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So there’s been changes in -- in that.

VERA METCALF: Um-hm. And I’m not sure what’s going on, but we’re hoping that the spring will be a better whaling season. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: And for, of course, walrus hunting. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes.

VERA METCALF: And in the summers, they have, um -- Savoonga has a CDQ program. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. KATIE CULLEN: Hm. VERA METCALF: Community Development Quota program through Norton Sound Economic Development -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: -- Corporation where they can harvest halibut for subsistence and commercial. KATIE CULLEN: Hm.

VERA METCALF: It’s a good -- good system, and it seems to be working, ’cause it helps with bringing in income. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes. VERA METCALF: Much needed income. But those guys just hunt in fifteen-foot skiffs, and go fishing and -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Wow. VERA METCALF: -- determined to. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah.

So I think Gambell got whales last year. VERA METCALF: I think, um, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Gambell got whales. So there’s still a lot of community sharing between communities? VERA METCALF: Yeah, there’s lots of sharing. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Which is wonderful. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Especially if one community doesn’t get anything. VERA METCALF: Um-hm.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. So quite a few people, then, in Savoonga are participating in the halibut fishing for subsistence? VERA METCALF: Well, this -- whoever can afford the f -- you know. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: The kit? VERA METCALF: Could have the gear and the -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.

VERA METCALF: It’s longline. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Ok. VERA METCALF: They don’t have huge vessels to go.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And then Gay was -- do you have to go at a certain time today? VERA METCALF: As long as I get to my office by -- before 2:30.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Ok. Well, we’ll wrap up, then, quickly. But Gay was also mentioning about the commercial fishing boats that had actually gone up further into the Bering, the North Bering Sea last summer. Did you know about that?

VERA METCALF: Right. We’re always worried about commercial trawlers. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Fisheries, 'cause their gear might get lost and entangle. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Entanglement issues with --

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: So can the walrus commission take a stand on that or do anything? VERA METCALF: Um, we have. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: With the help of people who are oceanographers like Jackie (Grebmeier). LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm. VERA METCALF: Who have helped us write letters to fisheries -- a large fishing -- but, you know, you’re disturbing -- you wouldn't be disturbing this environment. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: Walruses are going to be hauling out, or -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right, yeah.

VERA METCALF: -- critical habitat for, um -- I think you heard the eider. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes, they were talking about the eider ducks last night, too. Wow.

VERA METCALF: Yes, so we use resources like Gay and other researchers who have -- who know more about the benthic stuff than -- LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yes. VERA METCALF: For advocating for us.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. That’s great. I know you’ve got to go. We don’t want you to be late. Did you have anything else that you wanted to tell us that perhaps we haven’t covered?

VERA METCALF: I don’t know. I think I am looking forward to this young hunters summit. It’s a lot of work, but it’s needed.

I, uh, often hear of young fishermen’s summits, so why not do a young hunters one? And it’s been creating a lot of interest. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Um-hm.

VERA METCALF: I’m excited about seeing what it would do and what the next generation can bring to the table. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah. VERA METCALF: I mean, the new young -- young folks. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: That’s right. Yeah. I hope it’s really successful for you. VERA METCALF: Yeah. I hope so, too. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Yeah, Katie -- KATIE CULLEN: That sounds -- yeah, it's really exciting. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Katie, did you have anything else, too? Yeah. KATIE CULLEN: No. Thank you very much. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Thank you very much, Vera.

KATIE CULLEN: Um, yeah. I was just thinking, gosh, if there’s any way we can -- there's any way we can help support the summit or -- or -- yeah. We’d love to do it.

VERA METCALF: Kawerak just posted more information on it, so. KATIE CULLEN: That’s exciting. Yeah. VERA METCALF: See what happens.

I have -- I -- hopefully, we’ll get a steering committee together and identify facilitators who are knowledgeable about the work that we’re doing. KATIE CULLEN: Um-hm. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right. Yeah, and get the elders involved, too. VERA METCALF: Yeah, involved. Yep. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Definitely. Well, good luck, Vera. VERA METCALF: Yes, thank you.

LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Thank you so much for coming in today. VERA METCALF: Sure. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: And sharing everything -- KATIE CULLEN: Thank you. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: -- with us. Yep. Thank you.