KAREN BREWSTER: This is Karen Brewster, and today is March 14, 2022, and I am here in Fairbanks, Alaska, with Colleen Redman. And this is for the Alaska Native Land Claims Settlement Act Project Jukebox.

Colleen, thank you for letting me come visit you today. And um, a lot of what we’re going to talk about is related to the Tundra Times and its role in the land claims movement, because your brother was Tom Snapp, who ran -- helped run the paper with Howard Rock.

And -- but before we get there, if you can just tell me a little bit about yourself, where you were born, and when you came to Alaska.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes, thank you, Karen. Um, I was born in Glade Spring, Virginia, a small community about 30 miles from Bristol, Tennessee-Virginia. And I grew up there. I went --

When I graduated, I wanted to go to college, but back then, there was no community colleges, and it was not that easy to find a college. So I ended up going to a secretarial school in Abington, Virginia, and after a year there, I, um, I received a job at -- in Kingsport, Tennessee, at Holston.

It was during the Korean War, and Holston Ordnance Company, and later -- later it changed its name to Holston Defense. And which was a subsidiary of Tennessee Eastman. And they were making Composition B and TNT for the military in Korea. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And after two years, I could see it was -- that the Korean War was winding down, and I could see that things were winding down there.

And I made an application to Berea College in Berea, Kentucky. I had found out that it had no tuition, and that sounded good. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, I went to Berea College for four years, and when I finished at Berea, I had a scholarship to Boston University for social work. And I completed one year of social work, and at Christmas I was married to a person that I met in Alaska when I was working at Mount McKinley Park.

I worked at Mount McKinley Park the summers of 1956 and 1957. The first time that it was turned over to, um -- that the park was turned over to a private company.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, a concession kind of thing?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, National Park Concessions (Inc.). They had concessions in Blue Ridge Parkway, Everglades in Florida. You know, they were the -- the primary concession company for national parks nationwide. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, I met my husband there, and then I ended up getting married and coming to live in Fairbanks in 19 and 58. And I’ve lived here continuously.

KAREN BREWSTER: And how did it -- how did you end up working in Mount McKinley in those summers? ’Cause you were coming from Virginia?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes. Well, in Berea, everybody works, and I worked at the front desk of the Berea College Hotel. And I, um -- and so I -- we were -- we went on a field trip to Louisville, Kentucky, and after our hotel management teacher, who was also the head of the Berea College Hotel -- after he had shown us around in Louisville and we saw different hotels and different carpet places and so forth, I ended up -- we ended up having a, um, a banquet on the roof garden of the Brown Hotel.

And at that Brown Hotel was a man by the name of Sandberg from Mammoth Cave, and he was in charge of National Park Concessions. And so my girlfriend and I, we were always very, um -- looking for a summer job, so we asked him about a summer job.

He said, "Oh yeah." He said, "I could use you on Lake Superior." And then as an afterthought he said, "We might get a place in Alaska, Mount McKinley."

And we said, "Oh, if you do, be sure to let us know." So he calls down to Berea in February of 1956, and he says that they got it. And so, we went to Alaska after our last exam. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Never had flown in an airplane. It was a real big step for me.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah. But you went with this friend? COLLEEN REDMAN: With a friend.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And you worked in the hotel, then, at Mount McKinley?

COLLEEN REDMAN: We did. I worked at Mount McKinley. I worked at the front desk of Mount McKinley Hotel. And she worked as a waitress.

And so we -- and then I came back the second summer, and I met my husband there. And that’s what really -- KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- has anchored me here in Fairbanks, Alaska.

KAREN BREWSTER: And was he from Alaska himself? COLLEEN REDMAN: No, he was from Texas. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. COLLEEN REDMAN: He was from near Sherman, Texas.

KAREN BREWSTER: But you decided you wanted to live in Alaska?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. He wanted to. He liked working up here. He liked it here. So we lived here ever since.

And so then, you know, I’ve had different jobs. I had to -- started out, I worked for the Territory of Alaska in social work. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then I worked in -- I did adoptions. I was the first -- first social worker in a private agency here. I worked at Hospitality House for a while.

And then I -- I, um, they asked me to coordinate the boarding home program where they came from the villages to go to high school. And it was 1967 to 1973. And we had lots of Barrow students. Oh well -- KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: We had -- we had 30 -- 39 students coming the year of the flood. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then -- and then -- which was 1967. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And we had to find homes on higher land for them. And then, by 1973, there was like 275 students. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But we had ’em not all in Fairbanks. We had ’em in places like Tanana, Galena, Tok, Delta. So we had ’em in other areas, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And um, it was really interesting, you know. I remember these two really good players from Barrow. And in the class 2-A, well, they would want ’em -- Nenana would want ’em. And Tok would want ’em. And whoever I sent those two boys to would win the championship.

KAREN BREWSTER: For basketball?

COLLEEN REDMAN: For basketball. Because they -- and then after the basketball season was over, they would come back through going back to Barrow. Anyway, it was an interesting program.

KAREN BREWSTER: And was that a state program?

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was state-operated. It was under state-operated schools. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. COLLEEN REDMAN: Out of Juneau. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it was a really good deal because the state, they only paid five dollars a day, and they paid the ticket in and the ticket out. But they did not pay for anybody that, you know, if a parent died or anything. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: We had to figure out how to manage that.

KAREN BREWSTER: And did the host families that they stayed with provide all the food and everything, or that was -- ?

COLLEEN REDMAN: They did. And -- and they provided a lot more. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, you get a family like, take Jay Ramras’ family. They -- We had several students from Allakaket with them.

And they have to babysit Jay and his brother, but on the other hand, you would see the boarding -- the parents having them out for dinner. They'd take him on trips. It was a really good deal. It was a really good exchange. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because a lot of students, I’ve been here long enough to see them have children and grandchildren and get university degrees. Many of them, after many years. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And become teachers. It was a really, I think, good ex --

And -- and the reason it came about was, um, the -- at the time that the, um -- at the time that the people across the United States were bussing kids across town for integration. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: Alaska was flying ’em out to Indian schools in Chilocco, Oklahoma, and Chemawa, Oregon. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: We only had -- For high school students, we only had Mount Edgecumbe, and it couldn’t hold all of them.

Well, when the Native associations -- when the land claims and the pipeline was coming, they got very active, and they started demanding that these kids be brought home. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, um, so we -- but they didn’t have schools in the villages. So they -- so they come up with the idea of having them in homes until they built the schools. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, then they built the schools, and -- and as the rest of the country was consolidating schools, Alaska went back to the little red schoolhouse. But it was an interesting time.

And um, and university people, I mean, we had, you know, all walks of life taken -- we tried to get the best parents we could for them. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: But. KAREN BREWSTER: How interesting.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And we -- so I did that. And then I did -- then I joined my brother in doing the newspaper. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: We did the All-Alaska Weekly newspaper from 1970 to 1987. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And in 1985, I took a job as a counselor at Ben Eielson High School. And I did that from 1985 until 1997. And then I’ve --

KAREN BREWSTER: So you were working -- COLLEEN REDMAN: I’ve been retired ever since. KAREN BREWSTER: 1997. COLLEEN REDMAN: Um-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so you were the school counselor and also helping with the newspaper at the same time?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, at the same time. But um, I wasn’t doing it full time. So I helped him.

But I did go back because Tom’s health was declining, and we were trying to -- he was in negotiations with Brian Rogers to sell the paper, and so -- So I went to work at Ben Eielson.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And so, for people who don’t know about the All-Alaska Weekly, let’s start with that one before we move to the next papers. COLLEEN REDMAN: Ok.

KAREN BREWSTER: About what that paper was and the kinds of stories they covered.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, Tom, from early on, he wanted to be a journalist. He wanted to write. He wrote poetry. Um, he wrote -- was always entering contests, everything, so he --

But when he graduated from high school as valedictorian, my dad insisted he go to business school in Roanoke, Virginia. But after six months, well, the money ran out, and he came back and he went to this business school that I mentioned that I went to. He went to it before me. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so -- so he -- then he was in the military. And in the military, he took lots of courses. And then he ended up following me to Berea and pulling together the courses that he did in the military and getting a degree from Berea.

So both -- I had three brothers, no sisters. And two of the brothers followed me to Berea after I was there. And um, and then also followed me -- well he then came up here to visit me.

KAREN BREWSTER: Tom did? COLLEEN REDMAN: Tom did. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, so he -- COLLEEN REDMAN: And stayed.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, he came after you? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He came in 1960. He had been in the military, and he had -- he had one year of graduate work at University of Missouri. And so he came to visit me. It was for two weeks, and he ended up staying.

And he went -- so before he came, I went down to Mr. Snedden, and I started telling him how wonderful Tom was because -- and so, he said, "You know, he might be too good for us."

And so, um, so Tom got a job with the News-Miner. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: In 1960.

And then, um -- and then, course it was 1962 when they started with the meeting in Tanana and the Tundra Times and so forth.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, the first Dena’ Nena’ Henash or however -- Our Land Our Speaks conference was that first one in Tanana.

Oh, actually, no. There was the Nuch’a’lawoya one before that. Anyway. COLLEEN REDMAN: Well -- well, so.

KAREN BREWSTER: So why did Tom start these other newspapers if there was already the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, he started -- You know, he was working for the News-Miner. And he was going to Tanana to this meeting, and the News-Miner, it was all this controversy about how the News-Miner was not printing the complete articles, and they weren’t sending it out on the wire ’cause they were -- it was a big controversy over reservations.

The News-Miner and -- and, you know, they opposed the -- and politicians, the reservation idea. And it was debated among the -- the Native people just reaching out to see what kind of way they could protect their land. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: So um.

KAREN BREWSTER: So did Tom go to that meeting in Tanana as a reporter for the News-Miner? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes. Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And then they wouldn’t print his stories?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, they did, but it’s all -- in aligned in this 43-page paper. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: That he wrote, trying to establish the Tundra Times.

He puts in the whole controversy of how they, you know, would change it, would limit him to 250 words, and the restrictions.

’Cause they were on the other side of the issue, and he was trying to, you know, to get the Native point of view out.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. So the News-Miner was for reservations? COLLEEN REDMAN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: Opposed to them?

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, they were opposed to registrations (meant reservations). KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. COLLEEN REDMAN: Very definitely.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, a lot of the Native community was as well. COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, they, it was, they were -- KAREN BREWSTER: But maybe that was later?

COLLEEN REDMAN: They would leave -- he tells how they would -- he would, said something about reservations, and they -- and the last part of it was, if someone wanted them. The News-Miner would leave out that part about if the news -- if -- if somebody wanted them. They were changing his stories around.

And anyway, you have to read that letter. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, in order to understand that whole controversy.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, I am aware that there was a big controversy about reservations and how they ended up finally with the corporation model later for land claims.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, they were just trying to see how to protect their land. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because, you know, they -- they were seeing it was slipping away from them. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh, so they were just looking for -- and they didn’t have money, and so, that’s when they reached out to LaVerne Madigan. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, and she and the American Association of Indian Affairs helped them.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Yeah, and then this interview that your daughter did with Tom in 1995. COLLEEN REDMAN: Um-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Just before he passed away, he talks about that reaching out to LaVerne and asking about big donors that the Association for American Indian Affairs might have, and that’s how they ended up with Dr. Henry Forbes.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. Well, Tom, what he did was, he --

KAREN BREWSTER: Do you want to read what you’ve written? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes, I could.

KAREN BREWSTER: ’Cause you’ve written -- you’ve written this, um --

Oh, that was the other thing he talked about in the interview with your daughter was the "Duck-in" in Barrow. COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. The eider duck.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But yeah, you’ve written out something, so go ahead.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Tom thinks -- You know, the eider duck was a big thing. It was kind of the tipping point. I mean, the Atomic Energy was there. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it was a big thing, too, but the immediate thing seems to me like, from what I’ve seen in Tom’s papers, is -- is them arresting those two Eskimos with a duck apiece. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But um, but I’ll read then some here. KAREN BREWSTER: Sure. Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: My brother, Tom Snapp, came to visit me for two weeks in June of 1960. He ended up staying for 35 years until he passed, September 8, 1995.

He got a job, first going house to house for the city directory. Then in the fall of 1960, he received a job as a reporter for the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.

In November 1962, US Solicitor General Ted Stevens said to News-Miner publisher Mr. Snedden, "I think you should send a reporter to this meeting at Barrow." Tom was sent as a reporter to attend a meeting of Eskimos concerned with solving some important problems.

The meeting had been called to consider the possible explosion of an atomic bomb off the coast of Point Hope, the arrest of two Barrow Eskimos, each holding an eider duck supposedly killed out of season, the clubbing of seals by U.S. Fish and Wildlife (Service), and the barring of anyone from visiting the Pribilof Islands. The settlement of the Alaska Native land claims.

Tom said he was the only white person at the meeting. This meeting was fully described by Francis Degnan of Unalakleet in her book "Under the Arctic Sun." In this book, she wrote about her father, Frank Degnan, who was an active participant.

Tom said the discussion was in the Eskimo language, which he did not understand. Even so, every so often, he heard his name mentioned.

When he inquired about what was being said, he was told they wanted to have their own newspaper, and they wanted an Eskimo, Howard Rock of Point Hope, to be the editor.

Furthermore, they wanted Howard to follow Tom around for a year to learn the ropes, so to speak, to learn the newspaper business. How to be a writer and an editor.

At the time, Tom had made plans to go to the University of Missouri to complete his master’s degree in journalism. Tom inquired, "You mean a newsletter?" He was aware they did not have money to fund the newspaper. They replied, "No, a newspaper."

I was living in a mobile home and left Fairbanks in July 1962 for the second year of my master’s degree in social work. Tom was living in the mobile home parked in Courtney Court.

My mobile home became the office where Tom and Howard were searching for a way to fund an Eskimo newspaper. In December 1962, Tom sat at his typewriter for several days, for two days straight, seeking funds to start a newspaper.

Tom did not follow the usual avenue of grant-writing. He went about it in his own way. Instead of writing a grant proposal, he chose first to find out who would have the money to fund the project.

He eventually focused on the American Association of Indian Affairs board of directors. One of the richest men on the board was Dr. Henry Forbes of Massachusetts.

Tom’s investigation revealed that Dr. Forbes had at one time visited Howard’s village of Point Hope, and that he had a niece in Fairbanks, Joan Koponen.

So Tom sat at his typewriter for two days straight, writing a 43-page letter detailing the Native situation and why a newspaper was needed. He sent the letter to Dr. Forbes. Months went by, and he did not get an answer.

Finally, he heard from Dr. Forbes. On September 7, 1963, Dr. Forbes contacted Tom and Howard, agreeing to assist the paper monetarily if they could get an issue out by the first of October, as there was going to be an important announcement coming at that time.

Tom and Howard got busy. Tom said that most of the first issue was political ads as an election was coming up, and this was a good way to raise money. The announcement was news about the Alaska land claims legislation.

Dr. Forbes continued to fund a comfortable, a considerable portion of the expenses of the Tundra Times as the newspaper was named.

At first, it was an Eskimo paper, and later they added Indian and Aleut to the description. The money they received each year came from rental property Dr. Forbes owned on Long Island, New York. Some years the amount was 35 thousand.

Additional funds were raised with the annual Tundra Times banquet. The funding ceased in early '90’s when Dr. Forbes died and contributed to the ending of the Tundra Times.

Tommy and Marilyn Richards were the last editors and were involved in the transition of photographs and other materials to the Tuzzy Library in Barrow. The Tuzzy Library devoted about 20 percent of their staff’s time to archiving of Tundra Times materials. The library paid to have it digitized, and it can be accessed on the World Wide Web.

Tom taught Howard the newspaper business, writing and editing. Tom decided he would use his own method to teach Howard journalism. He encouraged him to write about the things he knew and cared about. For example, his Eskimo adoption.

Another example, a journalist when writing an editorial usually overstates to get the point across. Howard did the opposite. If you read his understated editorials, you would say, "Oh yeah, that’s true." Howard was an artist and could lay out the paper perfectly using his artistic ability.

Tom agreed to postpone his graduate school for one year and a day to help Howard learn to produce the Tundra Times. Some of the paper’s early stories were published over and over in later issues.

One of Howard’s editorials urged the board to keep the paper going, not to let it cease publication after it was gone. Sadly, a vote of the board, including one decisive abstention, resulted in the Tundra Times’ demise in the early '90’s after Dr. Forbes passed and the funding from him stopped.

The Tundra Times reported on the explosion planned by the US Atomic Energy Commission. Two UAF professors led the opposition. Their names, Les Viereck and Bill Pruitt. Dan O’Neill later wrote about this in the "Firecracker Boys" book.

The Tundra Times reported on the explosion planned by the US Atomic Energy Commission, as I said. The two -- those two UAF professors in later years were honored by the university.

Another project that Tundra Times opposed was the clubbing of the seals by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on the Pribilof Islands. The people of the Pribilofs had one employer, U.S. Fish and Wildlife. The people had nice housing, a company store where they had a charge account.

However, they were afraid to say anything against the Fish and Wildlife agency for fear of losing their jobs with the island’s only employer.

In writing about this situation of the Tundra Times, Tom quoted Tennessee Ernie Ford, saying, "They owed their soul to the company store." The Fish and Wildlife agency controlling the people’s life would dish out a portion of sugar, coffee, and candy.

No one could come on the island, not even Aleut Carl Moses, who tried to visit the island in campaigning for his political office. The profit from the seals went to Fish and Wildlife.

It was exceedingly difficult for Tom and Howard to get the story, as the people were afraid to talk. Occasionally, they would find an islander who had come to the mainland for dental care that would talk if it were anonymous. The Tundra Times played an important role in opening up the Pribilof Islands and eliminating the program of the Fish and Wildlife.

After this happened, Senator Bob Bartlett, Alaska human rights head Willard Bowman, and Tom Snapp, visited the Pribilof Islands. When I went to Wien Airlines to buy Tom’s ticket, the agent said, "Oh, we can’t sell a ticket to the Pribilofs." I replied, now you can. And after she did some checking with supervisors, she sold me Tom’s ticket.

The four major concerns of the Barrow Eskimos, the possible explosion of an atomic bomb off the coast of Point Hope, the clubbing of seals by U.S. Fish and Wildlife, and the barring of anyone from visiting the Pribilof Islands, the arrest of two Barrow Eskimos, each holding an Eider duck supposedly killed out of season, the settlement of the Alaska land claims, Native land claims, all four concerns were resolved favorably to Alaska Natives, including the Barrow Eskimos.

A few years ago, Tom and Howard were honored posthumorously (pronounces it this way but means posthumously) by the Alaska Press Club. They named their prestigious First Amendment award the Tom Snapp Howard Rock Award and made the presentation at the annual meeting of the Alaska Press Club in Anchorage.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Great. That’s a good summary of it all. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I thought that that could be a good starting point in case you have any questions.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yes. Um, I do. Um, so um, (papers shuffling) that was the Tundra Times, which he started in, you said 1963, right?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, no. Yeah. ’62 was when they went to the meeting in November. KAREN BREWSTER: The meeting in Barrow?

COLLEEN REDMAN: I think that was the meeting in Barrow. And so, the -- he didn’t hear. He wrote the letter. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: And he didn’t hear until September of ’63. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. COLLEEN REDMAN: September 7, ’63. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And that’s when he said that they had to very quickly. If they could very quickly get this paper out, that he would assist ’em. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And the first check was 35 thousand. I’m not sure how much he gave ’em each month. I don’t know that. Probably that’s in the records. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I’m sure. COLLEEN REDMAN: That they have up there.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But Forbes said, well, there was some important issue that was coming up in October.

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was to do with the land claims that was coming up. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. COLLEEN REDMAN: That was the big issue.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And now, um, we had mentioned the -- well, wait, we talked -- So the Tundra Times, you helped with the business end of it? Or that was with the All Alaska Weekly?

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, at that time I was doing other things. I was with -- doing social work and so forth. But I did, um, you know --

See, I was gone that year that they were starting. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: I was in Boston.

KAREN BREWSTER: Getting your master’s?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Getting my master’s with my children. Well no, I wasn’t in Boston. I was in Richmond, Virginia. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: See, I went -- I got the first year, ’57 to '58. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: Right after I graduated from college. Then I got married, and I came back up. KAREN BREWSTER: Here. COLLEEN REDMAN: To Alaska.

And I was going to lose -- if I didn’t go that year, you know, within six years. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: I was going to lose that first year. So I went back and I got it in Richmond, Virginia, because then I was closer to my mother. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And we could go on weekends for -- and I did my thesis on consideration of Indian and Eskimo adoptions to white parents.

KAREN BREWSTER: Wow. You were ahead of your time.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I know. And I couldn’t -- but the thing was, I couldn’t get the records from the office because they were confidential, so it was kind of an exploratory one, and I had to -- I got different samples of Native Americans living with families in Richmond. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: But anyway, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so then you came back up here in ’64?

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, now I was (inaudible) -- I went there from July of ’62 until like June of ’63.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. Ok, it was just one year. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- three. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, they were still trying to get the newspaper going. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so -- so um, you know, they didn’t have money. They were still looking for money. And he was still trying to help ’em. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he had agreed to help Howard, so he’s -- he's helping Howard with the journalism thing. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And they’re trying to get it -- trying to get money any way they can.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. And then once the paper was up and going, and um, people were subscribing to it? Or Forbes just kept footing the bill?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, well, that was just a small part of it. I mean -- They got -- they had a banquet once a year, and they got money from the banquet.

And then they -- but yeah, they had subscribers all over the state. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: It was statewide. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And first it was, you know, Eskimo, and then they added Aleut and Indian to it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And then they also probably had adver -- I mean I know they had advertisers that helped.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And at the same time this was going on, this was when in Tanana they’re getting this meeting going. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh, and this LaVerne Madigan from the American Association of Indian Affairs is helping, you know, with that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh, because they’re helping to bring people in from the villages. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And um, Alfred Ketzler and -- and -- was a young, handsome chair of the meeting.

KAREN BREWSTER: And now, did -- Tom went down to Tanana for that meeting. Was he still a reporter with the News-Miner? COLLEEN REDMAN: He was still a reporter with the News-Miner.

But he -- in the thing he says he, because of the issue, he told ’em he was going to, you know, he was going to quit because they weren’t reporting it right. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He was really mad about how they were reporting it. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: I mean, that they weren’t giving the full story.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And then there’s also the Jesson’s Weekly?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yes. Now the Jesson’s Weekly -- When Tom came in 1960, he worked just a short time for the News-Miner. Just before that, and then he -- you know, then he helped -- it was a year or two at the most. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then, after he came back from this -- this year of -- in Columbia, Missouri, for his second year in journalism graduate school, he got a job with Jesson’s Weekly.

And at one time, he edited the Week -- he edited Jesson’s Weekly, and after the flood, it went daily and Sunday. And he edited the daily, the weekly, and the Sunday for Jesson’s Weekly up until it folded in -- because -- Because at the -- in ’60, late ’69.

And then he started the All-Alaska Weekly up with the sub-head from that. Um, the way Jesson -- Jesson’s Weekly, the subhead was the Pioneer All-Alaska Weekly.

So the, so the -- what happened was after the flood, they got loans and they had a big staff. They had, like, ten reporters. Charlie Willis was involved with it. But it went under. And so, the IRS locked it up. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So Mr. Jesson couldn’t be a part of it. And they put Mrs. Jesson’s name on it, but she wanted -- she wanted really no part of it. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So Tom ended up buying it and starting it as -- with the subhead for Jesson’s Weekly. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: In 1970.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And there was enough news to report to have the News-Miner and these other papers?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, Tom was one -- I mean to this day, people meet me on the street and say, we wish Tom was here, you know.

He could put it in a way. He wrote for, like, fourth grade. I mean, people knew what was going on. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he kept the opinion in the opinion page, and he kept the news in the other. And he didn’t care -- we didn’t have that many ads. So it didn’t matter that much.

No advertisers was keeping him from saying what he wanted to say.

KAREN BREWSTER: So how did he fund those if there were no advertisers? Subscriptions?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, it was very hard. And, and uh, one thing that helped us was that he would talk to people, like at the borough and so forth, if they gave him that big ad for the property, you know, so every year we’d get an infusion of money, about March, whenever they put that big ad in the paper and things like that.

But we didn’t take people off of the rolls very easily, you know, so some of them -- but no, subscriptions.

And then I developed a thing where I knew people from the villages. And these people right now, PJ Simon, he said, "I was your paper boy." Nick Emil, you know, they’ll tell me they were the paper boys because --

KAREN BREWSTER: So -- so it went to the villages?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. So I sent it out to a lot of villages. And it went to -- we sent it out all over the state. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: We had people in Anchorage and in Kodiak and all that carried All-Alaska Weekly.

And it -- and during the pipeline, then, the pipeline people would take a lot of copies. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So that helped a lot. And then I had another business where I had money that I could back it up. If you didn’t have money for the -- because we had to pay the News-Miner. It was, cost a lot to -- to --

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ’cause you used their printing press? COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it was real interesting, we were big friends with Bob Perry and Don Sunderland, the press men, and so we took our paper over. Tom never missed taking the paper over there, 9:00 on Thursday morning, and then it came off in the afternoon. No matter how sick he was or anything, he was always there.

And then, because I had money backup, you know, we always were able to pay for it, so. So we, that’s the way we were able to get through it.

But he worked long hours and had very little help. And he -- some of the help would, you know, that he’d do this freelance, you know, pay them. You know, one would bring in cartoons. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: And he’d pay them and all this.

And uh, and we had -- and the people we did have, Lee Alder, such a dedicated staff that would -- could do anything. He would teach --

At his funeral, one of the things that they said was that it was like a school because he would teach ’em all journalism. Because you had to operate everything. You had to be able to do everything in that office.

In case you weren’t busy with one thing, you know, he would have you do another, so. So he had people working subscriptions, and they could also lay it out, or they could, you know, do -- But it was like he was teaching journalism.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, that’s probably the best way to learn it.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he had such a good memory, he could -- he could call it, you know, for about 20 or 30 years, he was the president of the Press Club.

And he could call them all with just memory. He just memorized. He knew their phone numbers without even looking at anything. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow. COLLEEN REDMAN: Before he had his stroke and so forth. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But -- but no, he -- he was journalism all the way. And he didn’t have, you know, like they said on that thing, he didn’t have a lot of money. He never did make a lot of money.

He only -- from the time he started it to the time he sold it, he paid himself 200 dollars a week. And that was it. That’s like ten thousand dollars a year or whatever.

Well, when people bought it, they thought they could, you know, pay themselves. The money was not there, you know, for it really.

KAREN BREWSTER: And that was -- COLLEEN REDMAN: So it was a public service. His -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- his whole deal was a public service.

KAREN BREWSTER: And that was the Tundra Times or that was the All-Alaska Weekly? COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, that was All-Alaska Weekly. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, he wasn’t with the Tundra Times all that much. You know, he helped Howard get started, and he helped to start it. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he was -- his -- you know, he went off to school. He helped, he um -- he postponed his second year to help Howard for a year and a day.

Then he went back to school, and then the paper, you know, he got some money from Dr. Forbes, and then Howard was the editor. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Howard was. I think he did write stories for it, in it, but I’m not sure. But mostly, mostly it was just getting it started. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it was started in this mobile home that I had. It was parked over across from what’s now the Diner, but -- and Courtney Court. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was then it was called Nita’s Café. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So he -- he and Howard, they would write in there. They took care of these two parakeets of mine. And they would write stories about those parakeets in the early -- in the early days.

And then when I came back, and one of them had died, and I was bringing it in the house, and it flew up in the tree over there. I said, oh no, this famous parakeet is up in a tree.

But they -- they started it there, and they would laugh about, you know, getting peanut butter and jelly on the copy and all this. But uh, but that’s where he wrote the letter, and it was -- they had no money, and they just -- they just --

KAREN BREWSTER: It was a brilliant idea to start the Tundra Times and have a paper focused on Native issues, and land claims was really heating up.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. That’s what they were just -- they were just worrying. And he tells about it in there, how they were -- BIA was dropping in and surveying the land, and they could just see their land being pulled out from under them. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, it was like Tanacross and Northway and Minto and Nenana, those were the main ones at that meeting at Tanana, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh, but that meeting was very interesting because all this was happening at the same time. That same, that ’62. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh -- and uh, so -- so, this -- this LaVerne Madigan who -- she ended up falling at Kotzebue or something and breaking her arm.

I mean, anyway, and then she ended up dying, you know, so she didn’t -- but she was so instrumental early on, you know, with it.

And she helped Alfred and them get money to bring those people in from the villages. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: ’Cause when they’re not together, they don’t have a newspaper, how are they going to do an impact? KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So then, all these politicians wanted to go down there and ended up going down there. But Alfred was trying to keep everybody out that wasn’t a member. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So he writes about Father Convert wanting to -- to get in the meeting, you know, ’cause he was a priest. And then about Ralph Perdue saying that some group elected him at Birch Park, which they found out was not true. He named a Bud Hagberg and so forth was at the meeting. Bud Hagberg said there was no meeting.

So -- so it sounded like that -- that Ralph Perdue -- he was raised by a white family up here, and he had different views on the Native -- and it seems like that -- that he, um, tried to stop it, along with the News-Miner, some of the things that they were doing.

’Cause they would say that, like, LaVerne Madigan, that she was an outsider. That she was putting in. But she was really helping them. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I mean, she was getting money, um, you know. She’d get -- It’s in one of the letters that she first said that she could send six to eight hundred dollars, which was a lot back then. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: To help bring delegates in, you know, to the -- to the meeting in Tanana.

KAREN BREWSTER: I was wondering if Howard and Tom would’ve met her first in Barrow at that meeting? Or -- or I know she went to Point Hope with Howard.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Not at that meeting, ’cause you know, he said he was the only white person there. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he heard ’em mentioning his name, and he finally found out that -- what -- what it was all about.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I know she was in -- I know she went to the meeting in Tanana.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, she helped them in Tanana to get the people in there. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: I know that.

KAREN BREWSTER: I know she was there because there’s a photograph. COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: In Bear Ketzler’s collection. COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Of her there. Her and Ted Hetzel. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And there’s another photo of Tom and Howard and Ted.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, both things, both that meeting in Tanana with the chiefs and the Barrow meeting. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: It’s -- it’s a time when they’re trying to figure out what in the world -- How can we not have our land just pulled right out from under us, and how can we help ourselves?

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, and you say, the Tundra Times played a critical role in -- COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: -- the communication statewide. COLLEEN REDMAN: Um-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Of bringing people together. And they needed that unity to get it all through. COLLEEN REDMAN: Um-hm. Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So did you do anything with the Tundra Times, or you helped with the All-Alaska Weekly?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Mostly the All-Alaska Weekly because the Tundra Times, it was starting when I was out in, uh -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: In Richmond for that second year.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. But yeah, when you came back?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. But when I came back, then I went back to -- I think I went back -- Let’s see, ’67 -- well, when I came back, let’s see, ’62-'63, oh, I went back and worked some for the State of Alaska in the welfare office. And then -- then I was with the boarding home from ’67. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And I had my children in the meantime, and I did, you know, like three days a week with -- when I came back and did adoptions, at the All-Alaska Weekly. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: I mean, at the -- KAREN BREWSTER: At the state. COLLEEN REDMAN: At the state, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So I had kind of a life, I mean, you know, in addition to Tom’s. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But, but we were close. He was the best brother in the world to me. I don’t think we hardly ever disagreed. I just always looked up to him, and -- and -- and just, you know, so we were just -- thought a lot alike and everything. We got along real good.

Which was good, you know. He -- it was too bad that his health didn’t hold out because he at the time was writing a book about Ed Parsons and you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Who’s Ed Parsons?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, Ed Parsons is the ones that brought the cable. He’s the father of cable TV. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he’s the one that put -- he put the communications system in for Wien and also on the DEW Line. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And anyway, he was -- he’s called the father of cable TV. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But anyway, it’s a long story, but he was writing a lot of stuff. He was, you know, so interested in doing it, and then he was only 66 when he passed.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And so, did you help with the office business side of the All-Alaska Weekly?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, I was like chief cook and bottle washer. And I wish now that I’d done more of the writing because he wanted me to write, but I took pictures. I went on the trips.

But mostly I saw to the business part of it. And uh, and helped with just -- (siren in the background) KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Just all the other stuff besides. He mostly just stuck to the journalism. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Somebody had to keep the books.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I did advertising. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. COLLEEN REDMAN: I did advertising and oversaw the circulation, advertising.

Went around and I did, um, the pictures, printed ’em down in my bathroom downstairs.

And I had kids in here folding the newspapers, and I paid ’em so much, and then when they’d run out, I had a basketball goal out there, my son did, so they’d go out there to shoot baskets.

So I started paying ’em by the piece. But they, you know, like Susan Paskvan, all her family. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: Worked with us at the All-Alaska Weekly.

And Mary -- Marie Yaska from Huslia. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: Curtis. They -- Tom had ’em folding, and he had, you know, he --

Every day, he had a routine where he marked the papers. And he would -- until you read the papers, you didn’t know what the news was. So he did that every morning.

And his stories, like education and all, he would put a circle around it. He’d put AD in for Alaska, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Daily News. COLLEEN REDMAN: Daily News. And put the date on it.

And education or whatever the subject was. And he had a whole wall of envelopes with these clippings. And when we sold the paper, one of the contract -- one of the things was, that if they didn’t keep it, that he got those -- some of those things back. But they -- apparently they threw ’em all away. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he had put so much time. Because he said you had to know what had happened in order to know what to write about.

And he had about -- when he died, he had about 40 of these cheap recorders. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because he was so much on having it accurate that he carried that tape recorder everywhere. And in this day of fake news, all I can think of is how much he spent trying to make it accurate.

He could write shorthand, like 150 words a minute. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow. COLLEEN REDMAN: And he could -- and so he would have the tape recorder, and then he would transcribe it before he ever started to write an article. So he was very much on being accurate. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he was also involved nationally. We did go to, you know, the National Journalism Society of Professional Journalism meetings. And he would -- he was on the national FOI, Freedom of Information, committees.

And I’ve got pictures, you know, of all of that, of us going to these. I’ve got a thing downstairs, a big -- that’s signed by Sandra Day O’Connor that Sam Donaldson auctioned off at a -- in Washington, D.C., at one of our journalism SVJ meetings. And Tom bid on it. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, it’s signed -- it’s the Declaration of Independence signed by Sandra Day O’Connor. A real big thing. KAREN BREWSTER: Nice.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he was very much in the -- you know, for the freedom of the press and um.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so those clippings, like, he would clip something that was in the Anchorage newspaper and then he would pursue it locally?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, he just -- there was -- he was just getting the information about what had been written. Because his deal was, you don’t know what to write until you see what has been said about it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. But yeah, he didn’t just pull it off the wire like they do now and copy it. COLLEEN REDMAN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: He wrote his own?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. I mean, he was -- he was -- and he -- Anyway, he was -- he was journalism from the word go. It was just amazing how he was so dedicated. I mean, he worked late in the morning and --

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like he did most of what it took to run that paper.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He did. He did. He said everybody was a story.

I remember one time this man came in, and his shirt was open. And, you know, Tom was real tired. I knew he was, he was on his deadline, and so I said, "Well, could you come back tomorrow?"

I never did that again because Tom was waiting for that man. It was from the culinary union, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He was waiting for that man to come for his -- his headline story, you know. So you never knew. He said everybody was a story.

One time we had one come in there, and he was telling, for an ad, and then Tom got a big story out of him just while he was in there for the ad. So he could, he could recognize a story. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he could recognize how the picture he wanted, you know, to tell that story.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. So I mean, as I say, we all think of Tundra Times with the Native land claims, but him writing for the All-Alaska Weekly, was he writing about land claims?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. He did. And he also -- you know, I went to the villages a lot for those stick dances and all that, and he covered the villages really good. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because we were -- we were circulating our papers out there, plus the fact that, um, that we were interested in those issues.

He had picture pages on the stick dances and a lot of things on the villages. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Um, stick dance.

So how did you get selected to go where? Like, were you the only photographer, so he sent you?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, well, yeah. I would go. But oh yeah, he didn’t -- You know, he didn’t have but one or two employees for most of the time. It was kind of a one-man operation, almost.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Well, that’s what I mean. He couldn’t go out to some of those places.

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, but he did. He went a lot more than, than he, you know -- Even when -- He went on the pipeline some, too. But I went on the pipeline and all.

But yeah, we would just -- he wanted it covered, and so we -- I would go out -- we'd go out to the villages and --

KAREN BREWSTER: What a good sister to go do all that ’cause you weren’t an employee, were you? COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, well, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, you were?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. During that time, I wasn’t working some other place. And I took two hundred dollars. We both took the same salary out of the whole time.

And then -- but I saw to the, you know, the bookkeeping, the taxes, and everything like that.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. I was gonna say, it sounds -- that was my question is that he was focused on the journalism. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And was perhaps not as good at managing the business side?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, and he just left that to me. And, uh --

But he did negotiate with Brian Rogers for about two years to sell it. And I didn’t -- for a long time I didn’t know he was -- he was negotiating with him about it. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: And, uh. KAREN BREWSTER: And that --

COLLEEN REDMAN: But it passed after -- after we sold it, there was, you know, different ones. Andy Williams was editor part of the time, and -- Not Andy Williams, but Andy, uh, Andy Williams, I think is a song -- KAREN BREWSTER: Singer, yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Singer.

But um, anyway, it was Andy that used to be at the -- was really outstanding at the Alaska -- at the Anchorage Daily News. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But anyway, yeah, he -- he -- it was -- it was interesting.

But he saw that his health was not going to allow him to continue. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And so, he negotiated to sell it.

KAREN BREWSTER: And then Brian Rogers bought it?

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was a group. It had Niilo (Koponen) and Brian and several people involved in it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And then, how did it end up disappearing altogether?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, there was -- Joe Sitten was in it, and then he left, and then Tom Alton was awhile. And um, and um, they finally just folded. They finally just folded it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Just for -- financially, they couldn’t keep it?

COLLEEN REDMAN: I think, yeah, they couldn’t keep it. Because, you know, they’d all think they were gonna do -- gonna, you know, make it, use electronics and the typewriter, I mean, the --

You know, he did it the old-fashioned way. We actually did the Veritype one letter at a time. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow. COLLEEN REDMAN: For the headlines.

And uh, everybody thought, well, you know, they thought they was gonna modernize it and everything, and it was gonna make all this money with it, but it was not a money-making thing.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Journalism still is not necessarily a money-making thing.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I know it. Whenever people -- I was a counselor, you know, and someone would come in and say they wanted to go into journalism, it was all I could do to keep a straight face.

But at the same time, I didn’t want to throw cold water. If they were dedicated like he was. ’Cause that’s what we need now. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Is somebody down there dedicated like Tom was. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But at the same time, I say what else are you going to do? Because I knew that it’s a struggle. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it’s -- it's too bad it’s that way, because it’s so necessary.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But we -- we do. Well, so in Tom’s time, being that dedicated and hard-working, was that unusual in the newspaper business at the time, or that was the way it was done?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Um, well, I just think he was unusual. I mean, he was -- he was -- I’ve got letters here that he wrote. He wrote a letter almost every day from Korea. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And that is a whole ’nother story. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because he spent most -- he didn’t ever have any money, and neither did any of the rest of ’em. But he spent his money a lot on taking courses ’cause he was trying to advance his education, you know, while he’s in the military. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh -- and he -- but he -- When he was drafted, he volunteered the night before he was drafted. And they put him in the Stars and Stripes or the -- you know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Air Force Review or whatever, their paper.

And he just loved it. For eight months, he had that job, and they flew him all over. He came by home. We went to Washington, D.C. He interviewed Eddie Rickenbacker.

And then someone with a higher rank wanted him in Korea, in Seoul, Korea, in the office of the Adjutant General. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. COLLEEN REDMAN: ’Cause he could do that fast shorthand. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he could do stenomask and everything.

And so, anyway, that’s -- that's another whole story, of the letters and it gives you an idea of exactly what was going on there. And how hard he worked.

Because every time they would -- they would bring someone in the office, he would be so hopeful that they would have skills. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And they would just be, you know, just barely starting. And they would have -- they would want the stuff the next day, and he’d work 'til midnight. So you can see how hard he worked, even in there. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But all of this prepared him for where he ended up, you know.

Because he’s always -- I mean, at -- at college, he edited the Pinnacle, the college newspaper, and contributed at Berea to the town newspaper. In our hometown he had, you know. So he always was in the newspaper business. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And uh, he -- You know, that’s just -- that was his cup of tea. He could do it real fast.

The thing of it is, he -- and he didn’t like it because a lot of times, he didn’t want to wait for a week to put his news out. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: So during when Hickel was in and there was a lot happening, he just couldn’t stand it, so he just started putting out a little paper called The Snapper.

And he’d have me take it around to the -- to the coffee -- to the, you know, places like the Co-op, the coffee places. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He said, people just want a little bit of news while they’re having their coffee. And so, he’d just have me to take it around there, free, and put it, you know, on the counters and so forth.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah, especially during land claims when there was so much -- and the pipeline, so much happening. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: To only report once a week, it's -- by the time you got the paper out, it was old news.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he -- he was -- He got so many awards at the Press Club. And at first, we competed against, all the papers competed. And eventually, the Anchorage papers, they pulled out and put the weekly in a separate category.

But he won a whole lot of awards, you know, for his stories. And some of them were just -- were just kind of amazing, the things that he wrote.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so, I can assume that the editorial stance of the Weekly was pro-Native and pro-land claims?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, he was pro-reporting on what the -- you know, he was always for trying to tell it.

He had a method of getting the news out that was kind of interesting. You know, if he was calling, say, Chuck Reese, or someone on the school board, he would say something and then he would say, "Oh, so you -- so you are this?" And they’d say, "Oh, no."

He would say the opposite, you know. And they would come back real forceful. ’Cause it was hard to get people, and he says especially women, to make statements. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: That you can report.

So he would say that, and he’d say -- they’d say, "Oh. Oh, no." And so, he would know the whole story, but he would act what he’d call “Marilyn Monroe dumb.”

Where he would just act like he didn’t know, you know, and ask the question and so forth. And he would get -- and they would -- would come up with some of the other opposite positions, and then they would make it very definite, you know, what the statement was.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. That’s smart.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Another thing about him teaching Howard, uh, I think I read that, but I’m just going to state it again. About Howard --

How Howard could make the understatement and make his point, for as ordinarily a journalist overstates to make the point. He could understate it, and you would say, "Oh yeah, that’s true." KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And -- and it would -- so he made his points in a Native fashion, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. Interesting.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Of how he did the journalism in his editorials.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So maybe you said this already, how Tom and Howard met?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, Howard, he was in the Nordale Hotel. And he had a -- he was an artist. And um, and also, that is where Ralph Perdue also had -- had a place in there.

KAREN BREWSTER: His jewelry place? COLLEEN REDMAN: Jewelry place. And that’s how they met.

And that’s how -- yeah, so. But he met him there, and uh, and then the News-Miner, then that came up at the News-Miner where they sent him. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then Howard, I think, was -- I think it was at the meeting. I think it was at Barrow, really.

KAREN BREWSTER: That’s what I was wondering, if that’s where they actually met? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. I think so. I think so. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: They might have known each other at the Nordale Hotel, but I think it was mainly that Barrow meeting. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Which, you know, um, it was unusual for Snedden to send someone. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But it was Stevens who was the Solicitor General that told Stevens. KAREN BREWSTER: That told Snedden. COLLEEN REDMAN: That told Snedden to send someone to the meeting.

’Cause they probably were getting worried about reservations or something.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I mean, like yeah, why would the Fairbanks paper care about covering something way up in Barrow? COLLEEN REDMAN: I know it.

KAREN BREWSTER: And especially at that time, Native people didn’t have the political power and economic power that they do now, so to get that attention is pretty interesting. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so, after teaching Howard, Tom -- Howard just took over and did it, and --?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. But I think that Tom may have contributed. I think there’s articles of Tom’s in there. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And I think that he also carried it in All-Alaska Weekly. He -- we were -- Then later on, we were in -- You know where the parking garage is downtown? KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: We were up over -- that was the Leprechaun Room down below. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then up above it was where we were. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then Howard, they had to -- the Tundra Times over there, and then he was -- it was across the street. And then also he was at Tommy’s Elbow Room a lot. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then, the people in the Polaris building, they would look over at us working all night on Wednesday night.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the paper came out Thursdays?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Thursday. He took it over there at 9 o'clock in the morning. Oh, what I started to say about Bob Perry and Don Sunderland, they would protect it, you know, so that the news people over there couldn’t see what Tom’s headlines were. Because we weren’t going to come out 'til afternoon, and we didn’t want them to have the same head -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: ’Cause he would get stories that they hadn’t have. But they wouldn’t let Kent Sturgis and them in the newsroom. They said, they said they kept him out. They protected it.

Well, see, we had a contract for them to print it. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, so.

KAREN BREWSTER: But how did you do all the layout? You said you did it with the, um --

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, we had a typesetter. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: We had a typewriter, you know, where they can justify and everything. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, those IBM machines. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: They had before they had computers.

And uh, and so, we -- we set the type.

And Lee Alder, that she could set type, she could do the subscriptions, she could help with layout, she could do all of that.

KAREN BREWSTER: But you set the type at the News-Miner’s press, or you set it in your office and carried it over?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, we set it -- we set it all in our office. It was all ready to go. We just took it over there to be printed. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: No, they didn’t set it. We set it. KAREN BREWSTER: And then --

COLLEEN REDMAN: And if our equipment didn’t work, sometimes we had to go and use it from the university, from their newspaper there.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what about the Tundra Times? Did Howard do it the same way, or did he have his own printing press?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, no. He had to have it printed, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So he did it at the News-Miner?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. I think so. I think that’s where it’s printed, yeah. Nobody had any ability to print except them.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right, but then you did all the layout yourself with the --

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh yeah, the layout. You had to put it through there and make it, stick it on. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right. COLLEEN REDMAN: And cut the copy and all that. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But they were -- the people were good. I’d call up people, you know, for the ads and all. Go around, and there were certain ones that were real good to us. Mr. Crafton, Tip Top Chevrolet, Kentucky Fried Chicken. Jackovich.

One time, as Mr. -- as Joe Jackovich, he got older, and his kids took over the business. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: And he would always give me an ad, like a big page of an ad.

And I’d go down there, you know, and sometimes I wouldn’t do that much on Monday and Tuesday, but on Wednesday, I was really getting the ads for that paper.

And uh, so this one -- so the -- so after -- after Joe Jackovich retired, his kids, they weren’t as much to support, you know, to give me an ad.

So one time, I needed this ad real bad for the back page, and so, I called over there, and I said, "I want to speak to Joe Jackovich." They said, "Oh, he’s in Palm Springs." I said, "So what’s his number?" I called him in Palm Springs.

So it used to, when I would call him, he would say, "Colleen Redman, All-Alaska Weekly."

So I called him down there, and he says, "Colleen Redman. I’ll be damned." He was so surprised that I called him down in Palm Springs.

I said, "Jack, can I put your ad on the back page?" He says, "Sure, go ahead." But they were good to us. Different people were good to us. That helped a lot. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: With what ads we did get. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And we did get more ads and all. And they took more papers. They would buy a lot of papers during the pipeline. That helped us a lot when the pipeline was here.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah, they had to have a paper out at all those construction camps.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Tom was not able to hardly go back, and my mother was always wanting him to come, until the pipeline, and then he got money ahead. And he got Jo Anne Wold, and then -- and then one time, he got Lee Alder’s husband, Don Alder, to edit it. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. COLLEEN REDMAN: And -- and --

KAREN BREWSTER: So he could take a vacation?

COLLEEN REDMAN: So he could take a vacation. He had never had a vacation.

But this Jo Anne Wold, if you know about her. KAREN BREWSTER: I know the name, yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, she -- you know, she had polio, and she did it with her mouth. She did the pen -- the pencil -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- with her mouth.

And um, I would take the copy down there. And she was down on Second Avenue, and I would take it and we'd fix it up.

And, you know, she had to -- it was -- he said she could do more with her little finger than a lot of people could go -- She got a lead story from Hesden Scougal ’cause she knew people. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: She’d lived here. But she was an interesting person, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Jo Anne Wold.

KAREN BREWSTER: I was going to say, I know the name. And Hesden Scougal, he was with the pipeline and the Department of Transportation. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. Yeah, he was. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Hesden Scougal. But anyway, I’m probably getting off of the subjects.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I don’t know, but you had other things written down about -- that you wanted to talk about related to -- COLLEEN REDMAN: Not -- I don't -- I don’t think that -- KAREN BREWSTER: -- land claims?

COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, you could just ask me questions. It’s hard for me to know what -- what --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, we're -- we are. That’s what -- we’re going along. Yeah, one of the -- the -- You know, the -- in the land claims story, the Tundra Times played a large role. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, I don’t really know where I was going, but that -- I guess being involved in the newspaper business at the time, what do you see as the role of those newspapers, both -- ?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, you wouldn’t know what went on at any meeting if you didn’t have a newspaper and a reporter there. And that’s why it’s so important now that we do more with journalism and pay ’em more and have more. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Because that’s how people get their information in order to -- to act on it.

And -- but a lot of people don’t realize. You know, Tom would say, "I can put in on the news side, that, you know, that this person got, you know, three thousand dollars bail or whatever, for some. And unless I tell ’em that’s excessive bail, they might not even think that that’s excessive bail." KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He has to tell ’em on the -- on the opinion page there, the editorial, you know, some of what’s going on.

So it’s -- Dermot Cole talks about this a lot. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: And Dermot, getting back to Dermot, Dermot and the News-Miner staff, Debbie Carter, Susan Fisher, and them, they -- they all worked together.

They would come to our office, and we did -- we put out this Freedom of Information newspaper and so forth.

And I’ve got pictures of, like, Dermot with black hair. Didn’t know he was married to Debbie Carter for a long time.

And then Susan Fisher spoke at Tom’s funeral, and so did -- so did Dermot. And uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: So what was the Freedom of Information Act thing?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, you know, it’s national, where people can go. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: It’s a whole thing about freedom of the press. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know.

KAREN BREWSTER: And you guys produced articles about that?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, no, Tom was on -- would go to these meetings.

Oh yeah, we had a local meeting, the Society of Professional Journalism, you know. They have articles in the magazines and all about -- I mean, it’s um, it’s the journalism’s, you know, it’s their journalism --

KAREN BREWSTER: It’s their code of ethics or something? COLLEEN REDMAN: Their code of ethics. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: And all that, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: That you have it accurate and all.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And -- and Freedom of Information Act requests are very complicated.

COLLEEN REDMAN: They want things to be open, and a lot of times, things are hidden. And so, therefore, the freedom of the press is that you can go, and you can, you know, you can req --

They’ve got laws passed where you can ask for information. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: And then they have to give it to you.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. They stall as much as they can. COLLEEN REDMAN: They stall as much as they can.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. I was just thinking about the period of the height of the land claims movement. You know, the late '60’s, early '70’s, um, and what the attitudes and atmosphere was like in Alaska or in Fairbanks?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Of the land claims?

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, what that period was like, living through it?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, uh, there was just a lot of discussion about how it should be done, and it was amazing that they got as much done as they did.

And without, you know, the Tundra Times and a lot of efforts of the Native people, I don’t think it would’ve ever happened. And you know, so that’s --

I’m glad that they’re doing the series that they’re doing about it. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: ’Cause that’s --

KAREN BREWSTER: And were you involved in any of it other than through the newspaper?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh, not really. I was involved with Native people, but I wasn’t involved that much in, uh, in the claims itself.

But because -- because of the boarding home, I mean, there was a lot of little side stories you would hear. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Like um, how they came about building the schools in the villages. That, you know, some of the parents felt they shouldn’t have to send their kids so far away from home, and so, they had a draw --

From what I understand, they had a drawing in Bethel, and they put these names in a hat. And they drew out the name of Molly Hootch. And then they filed that court case in her name. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: She was a 14-year-old girl in Bethel area, I think. And -- and saying that children shouldn’t have to go, you know, that far away to high school. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And I think the settlement for it was 120 million dollars to build schools in the villages.

And while they were getting -- once they got that money, they used that money, and that helped these contractors in Fairbanks, like Toombs and some of them, to be able to survive while they’re getting the permits for the pipeline. They were building these schools. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I remember on Good Morning America, they had a ground-breaking in Little Diomede, and I think -- I think there was just three -- two or three high school students, but it was a million-dollar -- going to be a million-dollar school. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But -- and at the time that the rest of the country was, you know, consolidating schools, Alaska went back to the little red school house.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, that’s interesting. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: But yeah, I didn’t realize that that worked out that they were -- could build the schools while they were waiting for the pipeline. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, yeah, I didn’t realize that. COLLEEN REDMAN: It gave them some work to do. Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. Well, and, you know, land claims really gave the Native people a lot of experience and power that they hadn’t had before. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, and I would think that the newspapers and that method of communication may have helped with all that. COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. I’m sure.

KAREN BREWSTER: We didn’t have cell phones and the internet.

COLLEEN REDMAN: You see, right away, they would, you know -- people in one village would wonder how they do it in another village. Until you can get them communicating. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, that’s how we help each other, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. What I was saying, there were no cell phones and no internet. COLLEEN REDMAN: Huh-uh. KAREN BREWSTER: And no telephones in many communities.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And to fly somewhere was expensive.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. So if they got a newspaper, that would tell them what was happening in other places? COLLEEN REDMAN: In other places. Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Yeah. Well, and, you know, it was smart to send that out to all the villages. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: That your paper got out to all those villages.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, he tried to cover -- cover the things. And uh --

But I’m so -- I was so pleased when they did the honoring. I went down, and my son and grandson came to it at -- at Anchorage when the Press Club honored Tom with that. KAREN BREWSTER: Yep. COLLEEN REDMAN: And Howard.

KAREN BREWSTER: Nice. Um, I was just going to ask you something else about -- Oh, the Tundra Times banquet. I’ve seen photographs, and I know they happened. COLLEEN REDMAN: Um-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: And they would have different speakers. But can you describe more about those?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, they made -- you know, they were large, and they -- You know, they charged a good amount for it, and it brought in money.

KAREN BREWSTER: And they were here in Fairbanks, or in Anchorage?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, they had ’em both places. But the ones I remember are here. But I think they did have it also in Anchorage. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. COLLEEN REDMAN: Later on.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so that was separate from, like an AFN annual convention? COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Tundra Times banquet was just what -- just the Tundra Times banquet.

KAREN BREWSTER: And did they have speakers? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, they’d have speakers.

Well, Tom -- they even did ’em --Tom even had a, what was it called? A First Amendment Congress. You know, they go to Outside.

Well, he had one here, and he had, you know, panels and judges and lawyers and everybody on ’em, you know, to discuss different issues.

You know, they -- but always freedom of the press. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: He was big in freedom of the press. Them being able to --

There was one incident which was, um -- it’s kind of hard to tell it in a short amount, but Judge Van Hoomissen tried to stop the presses. He sent a policeman over to the News-Miner. They were printing our paper. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And what it was about was this girl had been murdered out near the Boondocks Bar. And at first, they thought she was on Eielson (Airforce Base) property. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But it turned out she was killed not on Eielson property but in the Borough, so at first nobody heard about it.

And then finally it was in the courts. And they didn’t want to do anything to sabotage the case. So they -- after the initial part of the court case, they closed it off.

And then Van Hoomissen thought he had relieved -- Tom went to get the tape, and, you know, up until -- up until they closed it off, and he thought somehow that he’d given the tape that had the whole thing on it.

So he wanted an advance copy. Well, that’s called prior restraint, and that’s one thing that Tom did not go for, was prior restraint. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was -- so they sent state troopers to the News-Miner, and so Don -- so Bob Perry calls Tom and he says, "Tom." He says, "Tom, the state troopers are here." He said, "They’re wanting an advance copy." He said, "What do you want me to do?"

And Tom said, "Just proceed." You know, so they’re wanting to stop the presses. Tom said, "Proceed with all possible haste."

And they -- they did, and the two pressmen, which usually didn’t do that, they brought the papers out themselves and threw it in the back of my truck.

And then I was afraid to go back to the All-Alaska Weekly office on Second Avenue. I went up behind the Co-op until it kind of cooled down because I thought if they’re sending a policeman there, they’re probably sending them to our office.

And he later tried to get Van Hoomissen to come to the Press Club and talk about it, and he wouldn’t. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But just a lot of incidents. But he was right in there for freedom of the press. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: He was big on that.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Are there any particular stories that you can think of that, you know, you kind of broke the story first before anybody else that was significant?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, he was always breaking the stories. That was the big thing about it. He could -- but um, I don’t know.

He was -- he used to -- They used to call him over to "Problem Corner" at the last minute. Larry Carpenter was -- KAREN BREWSTER: On the radio? COLLEEN REDMAN: On the radio.

And at the last minute. And he would always go. And so, one time they was wanting to know what had -- something about, well, what has happened lately that, um, and -- and that was when the -- this thing happened with Jack Tripp and -- and I don’t remember all the details, but there was money inside that they were shipping. Money inside the frame of pictures and everything. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Anyway, it was a big -- it was a big deal. But Tom would even come out with breaking news there that nobody had ever heard about.

And so, a lot of his stories were the -- one of them was, he reported on this woman from Venetie, and she went over the hill, um, on a snowmachine -- on a four-wheeler, with her boyfriend. And she lay there for, I think it was five days. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, my. COLLEEN REDMAN: Or whatever.

And she’s hollering for help, and she’s not too far away. It’s somewhere near Fairbanks.

And so, um, we went to the hospital, and she told him a little bit about it, and then he come and got me.

He went first and then he come and got me, and he said, "Have her tell you so she’ll go into more detail." And it was a breaking news story.

KAREN BREWSTER: And did you know her, that’s why she would tell you more, or because you were a woman?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, I think as a woman, and also because I had worked with a lot of the village people.

And telling it to somebody else. You know, he’s trying to get more details, and she was not going into great detail. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But -- And he’d reported on this Kentucky man that was in the wilderness for, I don’t know how many days it was. 90 days or whatever. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

COLLEEN REDMAN: There was -- but a lot of stories like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Where he would be able to present it.

For the News-Miner one time, it was -- you know, they were shipping so much pop and stuff out to the villages, and he wrote a story about, Johnny, go down to the post office and get a bottle of milk.

And another time, he wrote a story about, something about Benji dog, the dog that would not bark, or something. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he just had a lot of stories, you know, that he did, and he enjoyed all of them.

KAREN BREWSTER: Sounds like he had a good sense of humor, also.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He did. He went around with -- I know his mother, Stella Carpenter, here. She’s a pioneer. And her son, when he was in kindergarten, Tom went and rode around with him on the school bus and told what it was like, you know, starting kindergarten.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, what a great idea. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. He just -- he just -- and he knew a -- he knew a story when he saw it. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And one time I told him, we had an in-service day at Eielson, and we’re all down on the floor, giving each -- learning CPR. He said, "Would you get a picture?"

A lot of times, you know, he wouldn’t want a picture of something I suggested. He’d say, "No, that that’s -- you know. But he said, "Would you get a picture?" And I said, "No."

And he said, "Well, that would’ve been an interesting picture, you know." KAREN BREWSTER: Of those -- All the teachers on the flo -- COLLEEN REDMAN: Teachers doing CPR on in-service day.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, I was -- you had mentioned about the News-Miner, for example, and the issues on reservations and things. So I’m wondering if in the land claims period, the relationships between the Native and the non-Native community. I mean, that’s a general question.

I mean, I know you worked very closely -- Native. Tom did. So how common was that connection versus being opposed?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, it was -- You know, it’s nothing like it is today, but there was conservative ideas and liberal ideas. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And the News-Miner were more on the conservative side. Mike Dalton was very conservative.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yes. And Tom was more the liberal side?

COLLEEN REDMAN: I think so. He -- he was good to both. I mean, we had the Republicans and Democrats come in there with their ads, and, you know, he talked -- interviewed both of them.

He got their statements, even though sometimes it’d be very expensive for us to call, or whatever, if they hadn’t sent their statement in. He would give politicians 500 words to put in the paper free, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But he was very good about trying to get both sides of something. And not take out words like the News-Miner did of his stories. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: You know, so he -- he was -- he tried to get both sides of it.

KAREN BREWSTER: And the Native community supported the Weekly and appreciated its reporting?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. I think so. I think they’ve supported, you know, Tom and me and the work we’ve done.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Because I know they did support the Tundra Times, obviously, was their paper and their perspective. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: But I didn’t know how they would have taken to the -- COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, they did. They did ’cause he carried so many of their issues and continued with those issues. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And then growing up with me going out there and taking pictures, and also having done social work out there, and worked with their boarding home students. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Doing the social work helped me a lot later on when I was doing the boarding home students. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: ’Cause I already knew the people. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But, no, we’d all kind of -- You know, I think you go through life and you do this, and you do this, and you do this, and suddenly a lot of things come together to help you. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: To do something else, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah, I was just wondering, you know, the atmosphere in the state. You know, ’cause you do read articles that there was opposition to land claims.

You know, and the governor, Hickel, for a while was against land claims 'cause of what it would mean for the state, taking -- they felt, taking land away. COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So just trying to get a sense of what it was like in Fairbanks. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And the relationships.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, that was an issue, right. That was that reservation thing, and it was there, and it was -- Tom writes about that quite a lot. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And that, about, you know, the different opinions on it. But basically, you know, some people weren’t wanting to give the Natives land. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And stuff, so. It was amazing that they got it, you know, that they got it passed.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah. And um, yeah, and that’s kinda what I was thinking, is, how common was it that there were these friendships and collaborations between Natives and non-Natives at that time? Was -- or were the communities pretty separate?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, you know, it was pretty separated. You know, the Peratrovich lady and all, I mean, they had -- and it was -- we had politicians that were, you know, like Frank Degnan and (Ned) Nusunginya and them. Hopson. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. Eben, yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: They would come -- like, um, trying to think of one person’s name. But he would come here, and he would say -- they didn’t have a high school all the way at Barrow. They just had to tenth grade. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he'd say, "We love our children." You know. And the Barrow kids, they'd -- they would still have their language, you know, so -- But they were ones that always wanted to have a dance. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Um, I was trying to think of the Native leader. Not Hopson, but I’m trying to think of who it was that would say that when he come here. Um, oh, anyway. His name escapes me.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. I mean, I can think of various Native leaders from that time, but they weren’t necessarily politicians.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Well, who do you -- who do you think of up there?

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I was -- I don’t know, depending on the time, but, I mean, Eben Hopson was mayor, but Joe Upicksoun was very active.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, Joe Upicksoun. That’s who. He said, "We love our children."

KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm. Yeah, he was very active in land claims. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Um.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And I’ve got pictures there of Charlie Edwardsen. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, yes. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah. Well, he -- I’m sure Tom and Charlie knew each other.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, yeah. Well, you know, he -- I would -- just recently, you know, just, I don’t know how many years he’s been dead now, two or three, not long.

But I would have coffee with him and all down at Starbucks ’cause he was around here.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah. That must’ve been fun, you and Etok, um, remembering the old days, maybe?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, I was -- Charlie, the way I knew him was through Community Action. I was the -- I called the first meeting of the Community Action. During the poverty program, we didn’t really know how to hook onto it. Sargent Shriver had come.

And so, um, I was working at Hospitality House, and they let me use some of my time to, um, to work on Community Action. So I called together a group. And we had to have people from all walks of life, and so we met at the Traveler’s Inn from -- for a year and a half before we ever got any money. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And we -- but we did a lot -- a number of things. And I would pick up Edith Tegoseak and Hannah Solomon from Birch Park and Eskimo Village to be the low-income people.

And then we had Dr. Wood, and we had Howard Rock, and we had military people and business people. And we worked on -- we had Van Winkle from the jail. And we met every Thursday morning at 7:00. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, my.

COLLEEN REDMAN: For a year and a half before we got money. But then when we did get money, we got Headstart, we got Neighborhood Youth Corps. I was honored by the -- for my work with Community Action, they had a tea here for me. KAREN BREWSTER: Nice.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And I was honored by Democratic clubs from all over Alaska.

KAREN BREWSTER: Nice. So the Community Action was a program that was to help services in the community for the --

COLLEEN REDMAN: It was under the Poverty Program is how it was done. So -- so Charlie Edwardsen was very involved in it.

KAREN BREWSTER: I know of RurAL CAP, which was in Anchorage. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Is that part of the same thing?

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, that’s sort of part of the same thing.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. I didn’t realize there was one here in -- COLLEEN REDMAN: It’s all the sau -- uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: Yep, it was. It was -- you know, they -- Neighborhood Youth Corps helped a lot after the flood. They put the boarding home students to work copying the records from the borough.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, gee. Which were -- got wet. COLLEEN REDMAN: Because they were flooded, had got wet. And so that was real good. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: They got an income. They got -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- paid for it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Cool. So did Tom have a favorite story that he had written that he talked about? That he thought was his -- COLLEEN REDMAN: Not that I know of. KAREN BREWSTER: No? Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He just liked -- I mean, he would get us all going, putting in the -- the -- the entries for the -- at the last minute. Susan Paskvan still talks about how we all got busy, you know, and he would just type out those cut lines and everything to put on for the entries in the Press Club, ’cause he won -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. COLLEEN REDMAN: -- those awards every year.

And um, but he was proud of what he did. He would sometimes -- you know, we had a little -- up in the -- up over the Leprechaun Room there, we had one big room and then a little room.

He’d go back there in his little room, and he’d be typing. And then he’d come out, and he’d say, "No."

So, not often, but once in a while, with an editorial or something, he’d say, "Listen to this." And uh, so he was very proud of what -- what he did. KAREN BREWSTER: Good. COLLEEN REDMAN: And, uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: That’s what I was wondering, yeah, did -- COLLEEN REDMAN: That was his life.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. That he -- before he died, he realized that he made a contribution, and was -- he felt good about it?

COLLEEN REDMAN: I think so. I think that was his whole thing. He just wanted to do more and more, but his body wouldn’t allow him.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Right. And you know, he did get a commendation from the state legislature for his contribution -- he and Howard, for their contribution. And then something from Tanana Chiefs, I think.

COLLEEN REDMAN: He got -- he got something from Tanana Chiefs, you know, from his -- and he also got something from the um, the legislature and something from the local Fairbanks, uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: The assembly? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, I think. I don’t know.

Um, anyway, I’ve got some of those papers. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. COLLEEN REDMAN: And it does -- it does say the Tanana -- the Tundra Times, as well as the All-Alaska Weekly.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So he did get -- he -- he lived long enough to get that recognition? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, he did. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: But on the end, you know, he was very sick and he should’ve had a health aide. You know, he’s telling about how he has this table and all. Well, he would never want to work until he got his table all cleaned off, you know, if he was here or where.

And he -- and he loved to cook. He was a good cook. My mother taught him to cook instead of me.

But um -- but on the end, he was ill, and he should’ve had a health aide or somebody there helping him. KAREN BREWSTER: Um-hm.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I didn’t realize how sick he was some of the time, and so -- but --

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And now, was he living here with you at the end of his life? COLLEEN REDMAN: Oh, no. Oh, no. KAREN BREWSTER: No? COLLEEN REDMAN: He was in -- in -- KAREN BREWSTER: His apartment? COLLEEN REDMAN: He was in Southhall Manor. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And he had a -- I think he had a health aide for a little bit, and then he was in the hospital, and then I think he was back. And I think they said that the service was discontinued or something. Anyway, he didn’t have help. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

COLLEEN REDMAN: And it was too bad. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: But uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: But it sounds like he was somebody who worked right up to the end. COLLEEN REDMAN: He did.

And then Howard did, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. COLLEEN REDMAN: Howard did, too.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. They’re very committed. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: People. I mean, you know, everybody in the land claims movement, as well, as the Howard and Tom with the reporting on it. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Very dedicated to their craft. COLLEEN REDMAN: Well --

KAREN BREWSTER: So, is that it? COLLEEN REDMAN: I’ve about worn you out with too much.

KAREN BREWSTER: No, I was thinking, I’ve probably worn you out. Um, that yeah, unless you have any other notes there -- COLLEEN REDMAN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: -- of things we -- COLLEEN REDMAN: I think -- I think it's --

KAREN BREWSTER: We’ve covered it? COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, this -- You know, it could go on and on, but -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

COLLEEN REDMAN: I’m a little bit tired right now. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. No, that’s great.

I appreciate your time. I think we’ve -- we’ve got the highlights. COLLEEN REDMAN: Yeah, good. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok, thank you. COLLEEN REDMAN: Uh-huh.